and so you have this fight over the debt ceiling, but it is about bigger issues. the debt ceiling has nothing to do with immigration reform, nothing to do with the proposals on gun control, nothing to do with anything else the president might want to do in his second term, but guess what, it does affect the climate in washington. and the fact that he does not have a more trusting, even a private back channel relationship with the key republican leaders is one of the -- one of the reasons and they had responsibility too, i'm not putting it all on the president it a washington crisis if you will, a trust deficit. it is one of the reasons -- >> mitch mcconnell talking. >> so you have to have the vice president go to the senate republican leader, two guys -- they're not best of friends. trust me. i know them both. they're not best of friends. they do trust each other. mitch mcconnell knows if joe biden gives him his word, it is good. we need more of that in washington, not less. >> let me ask you, since i have you, something else the president mentioned, asked, of cou